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Offline Exstreamfisherman

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Ocean Kayak Torque
« on: October 02, 2009, 05:00:29 pm »
Same size as the Trident 13 but with a twist... this one comes with a variable speed trolling motor. Both forward and reverse for ease of mobility. Trolling motor can be removed if you desire. Comes with a rudder and a good amount of storage. It also comes with the Transducer compatable scupper but no Sonar Shield.. but hey who needs it when you are cruising around in this baby..

The price is a little steeper than the rest but it all depends on your desire for luxury.
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Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 07:24:16 pm »
love the ideal.

just they put the motor in the wrong location it should have been in front bet the legs.

will be  apin to get that motor up wen you stuck in the shappows wit it and you have to turn your back and lift it at the same time..this is calling for some advil problemes..hahahaha and you have to lift that milk crate because the motor is under it and sutch.

put it in front bet the legs and guive you all that back space plus save your back etc etc etc.



joco

Offline Axor

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2009, 09:30:23 am »
Hi joco
we have had it here for a while and the motor back is reachable in the back and the whole thing floats which is great. It goes quite a way on a single charge, Im sure Snapper will be along soon, he knows all the is to know about it  ;)
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Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 05:54:19 pm »
hi

i did not said it was not reachable..what i am saying turning around while siting and could be very bad for a back...dislocate a vertabra is not.

ask any back doctor or ortho how you supose to work and they will tell you never lift and have your back twsist at the same time.

so reaching back and lifting it..could be a very bad thing for the back.

plus have it under a milk ctrate is not better have to turn and lift the crate and then the motor while going on shore or shallows.



i did say its a great ideal and well done...just in WRONG location.

put it in front lie hobi did..dont have to turn and dont loose your back space.

other then that ita a great little unit.just not well taught for it location pure and simple.

  people no this that front it would be better...

i would like to see a video off a guy on water going thords the shallow and have to bring it up fast and he as a crate over it. :D :D

but for some deap fishing and where there no danger to get in the shalows and dont care to wet your leg to get in ..great outfit.

joco
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 05:58:03 pm by joco »

Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2009, 06:10:54 pm »
if you look at this hobi(i am not a hobi owner) just aguy that look at all kayak and see is thebest otpion.

if you look at both there motorize in the middle in front off you or the rudder motor i find them great and fast to put up in case you get in the shallowes or have to bring up for wathver and can just put it later on water..wiout mutch troble.

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/accessory_details/accessory_evolve.html

but do have to say hobies kit are expensive.

for me its the ruddermotor that i love..simple and not in the way and dont lose space in the kayak the motor is out off the kayak.


joco............like i said great ideal..but should have been in front off the paddler.

Offline Axor

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2009, 07:26:23 am »
Im sorry you feel so strongly about it. we are all entitled to our opinion and who is to say any of us are right or wrong.
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Offline bucketboy

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2009, 08:13:02 am »
I have a motor on my kayak (2 1/2years now) and so know a little about there use and limitations.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to the Ocean kayak and Hobie outfits.

The Hobie centre mount position is more accessable but it does take up stowage space and because the drive is a long way from the rudder, the turning circle will be quite large (not a good idea in restricted inland waterways which will be one of its primary uses).

The Torque position is less accessable and will be obstructed by the crate but it offers a better turning circle and can be change over to a skeg when motor is not fitted (cheaper too).

Rear mounted motor (like my mod) offers very tight turning circle, does not take up stowage space but is hard (not impossible) to reach if it gets clogged by weed, it also require a degree of engineering skill to make the modification.

The rudder mount option is IMO the best solution in terms of turning circle, stowage and accessibility but it is too expensive for my liking.


Regardless...............variety equals choice ;)

Bb
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 08:21:23 am by bucketboy »
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Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2009, 12:14:49 pm »
Im sorry you feel so strongly about it. we are all entitled to our opinion and who is to say any of us are right or wrong.

read again bud...never said somebody is wrong and yes al opinion is an opinion..nothing more.you guys have opinion and there opinion and there great the more the better..this is what make this sport going forward and get more great kayak on the market.

i wont say its the case here..but in a lot off tread in sites i see people saying good stuff about kayaks....but wont say what they dont like about it even if there some ,why..EGO or there sponsord.i no because i talk to some off them in those site privatly.

but mine is that and i am sticking to it. ;D

great ideal,wrong location....my saying.

some people are stock wit a company because they sponsord by them and have to say good thing..and i accep this this is buisenes..

some people bring other product down to bring there up..there choice and not a good one i would say.


like i said before all kayak are good all off them.....just not for everybody chape or size and not for every kind off fishing.

mabe for deap...fishing no shalows and no rocks and no weeds and entry on a dock that one is perfect.

for me..its not.
like other said..its choice and i am happy there so many of them..i could even see more no prob.

rudder motor in the back is perfect for MY needs.


i am the guy that say the truth and dont have any make that i will preach more..becasue off any connection  i like them all all kayaks.like some do on some site
  
 AXOR.          dont you think its would be better if it was in front.? trully.?
sher would save..space and mabe back prob..that is for sher.

tru about the turning..loose a bit but then could oversize the rudder size a bit then get everything right. everything is possible wen its well taught before you put something on the market.

man i would totaly see that motor in that front rod pod..that would be so cool and handy. or at least close to it.


joco.

  AND bucketboy

i love that reaview on this subject. ;) well said and well thaught.

just one thing not sher the hobi is not to good to turne..the motor is in the same hole exact same place as the fins and wit the fin they turn so good, like nothing hel on a dime..so why the motor in that same place would not be as good to turn..?

mabe i am missing here.mmmm?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 12:37:47 pm by joco »



Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2009, 12:41:04 pm »
and for this..The rudder mount option is IMO the best solution in terms of turning circle, stowage and accessibility but it is too expensive for my liking.

you are right. ;)

this is why ..i do it myslef and bring the cost very low.


someone can do it yourslef for mabe..300$ aprox even less if you get used.

can have motor used for 50$.

   AND do have to say...the hobi i did post is great love the position iff the motor in the bcak the ruddermotor..and like the position off the motor in front.BUT

EXPENSIVE........by that hobi kit kayak and motor etc is expensive.wow.

again choice for peopl that have the $$ why not for other poor  like me..do your own. ;D
joco

looking at some videos look the comment under the video some stuff i been saying comes back in there still.

for me be in 14 inch off water to put it in is not a good option wen water is in the 40f.Rrrrr cold..hahaha..one reason they dont show or bring it out while on water.. ::)

can someone post off a video..off someone using it an dhave to bring the motor up and as a crate over themotr..would be informative to see. 8)

like i said love the ideal..great looking outfit..change the baterie and the motor back and fort and you get winner...at least a lot easyer to use..in shallows and on the back and for more space usage.



this home made kit would be a lot less$
http://yakabout.com.au/home/content/view/474/46/

but having to turn it and have that handle bet the legs..not for me. but its way to do it ..not expensive.

joco
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 01:24:43 pm by joco »

Offline snapper

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 06:55:58 pm »
I've used it a few times. It's good, I like it, I don't want it or need it.

The location of the motor is very good for its purpose - ie making a motorised kayak. wWhat it is NOT designed for is removal while on the water. To remove it you have to stop it so that the prop blades are vertical. You have to unplug from the FAR end of the tankwell. Another consideration is the battery - place a heavy battery in the centre you have a positive effect on the centre of gravity - place at the rear and you harm stability. Place it forward and the nose will dip so you have to increase buoyancy etc. As BB says, centrally mounted motors afect the turning circle adversely...I imagine the tracking is also hit. The Torque pushes the water over an oversized rudder too.

I've also had a go in BB's. I'd like to try them out side by side sometime. I've also seen the Torqeedo Ultralight (UK distributor is living in the same town as me as it happens). They got that SO wrong for anglers. Not familiar with the Hobie.

regards
Snapper

Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 11:01:19 pm »
it is NOT designed for is removal while on the water.  this is an honnest  answer that was waiting to see.

this is what i dont like...for my need and most off us here in are water..that fish in the shalows and where there tons off rocks and weeds.

something that is fix..like haveing a motor on a boat but cant lift the motor and no tilt..outch. :D


and for the weight...true..but it could be change..but they would loose some time..cause they could just get a smaller batterie and put in in the back and the motor in the front..motr is still 20 pound or aprox.......so a 30 or 35 pound batteri in the back wont evffect the floathing mutch...not worst then a lot off us that as a milk crate full off stuff and an anker in the back i would say. so this weight prob could be solve.

i gues its just not made for us and made for deap fishing people only.

that must be there purpose and there good for it.

joco.thanks for your response snapper. ;)

Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 11:05:35 pm »
centrally mounted motors afect the turning circle adversely...

this i dont understand.

because wen i look at the hobi..there fins power is center and turn like no other kayak on the market and they put one off there motor kit in that center hole to.

so why they can do a job so well and its centerd.?

and oceans could not...design flaw.?

joco

Offline bucketboy

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2009, 05:50:54 am »
centrally mounted motors afect the turning circle adversely...

this i dont understand.

because wen i look at the hobi..there fins power is center and turn like no other kayak on the market and they put one off there motor kit in that center hole to.

so why they can do a job so well and its centerd.?

and oceans could not...design flaw.?

joco


OK think of it like this. The motor merely pushes the Kayak, the rudder turns it. The rudder needs forward or backward motion for it to have any effect, the faster the kayak is going the tighter the turn will be because the rudder will have more grip in the water. With the motor close to the rudder (much like a car with a very short wheelbase) the tighter the turn will be because water spilling from the prop will pass over the rudder (even at slow speeds). With the motor further from the rudder (long wheelbase car) the water spilling from the prop will be traveling slower by the time it reaches the rudder (less turn) and there will be a battle between the motor trying to pull the kayak forward in a straight line and the rudder trying to turn it reducing the turning effect even more.

With the motor mounted directly to the back of the kayak, there does not need to be any forward motion of the kayak to achieve turn as the steering angle pushes the back of the kayak regardless of what the front is doing (my iomproved set up allows me to choose btween 5 pre-set steering angles that enables the kayak spin on its own centre)





Confused?


I am!

Bb ;D
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Offline joco

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2009, 01:40:59 pm »
thanks for the info ...i do no what you meen..but there some modification that can be made to change this.

.but why those hobi as a centerd traction and turn better then all other kayaks then.?TRULY actualy they turn to mutch to fast almost a problemes..so must be a design thing.



and a rudder can be change or upgrade to bigger to turn better..

i always sais that motor in the back is the best way to go..and now wit ruddermotor even better. easy to lift..dont loose space etc.



thanks again for info.

joco..............and by the way love your rig. ;)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 01:46:00 pm by joco »

Offline bucketboy

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Re: Ocean Kayak Torque
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2009, 02:05:28 pm »
I don't know why they turn sharper (may be a very well designed rudder) but I do know why the put the fins in a central position........you wouldn't be able to pedal them if they were anywhere else ::) ;D. It make perfect sense to me that if you already have a hole in the middle of the yak then why not stick a motor in it.

From an efficiency point of view, I think the OK set up is the best place for a through hull prop assembly, close to the rudder.

I would not swap either design for mine though, I would however have the rudder mount version in an instant.

Bb
I set myself very low standards and fail to achieve them!


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