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Author Topic: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.  (Read 3236 times)

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Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« on: March 13, 2017, 08:48:24 pm »
Have never ran a downrigger off a kayak. Figure a bit of a PITA, but off a Hobie a bit logical cause you can keep forward momentum and hook that fish. Dug up a Cannon Sport troll I use to use, have to spend $40 for a lexan base plate, add a support to mounting deck on PA and cut the boom. Paint the ball BLACK and add prism tape to it I figure. For inland lakers I much prefer just using leadcore, but will put work into a Lake O setup...goal big 34-38 inch 20 lb laker ! Got to have goals ! ( By the way sold the Scotty Lake Troll from CKA 2010 AOTY to an other avid yaker FF at a very reasonable price..like the depth dial and hand crank better on the Cannon ). Kinda waiting for warmer weather to work outside, another week or two, hope to have some progress soon.

Notice the Luhr Jensen Shoehorn spoons... that BAD Watermelon meant to be a good colour. Hope to run a Luhr Jensen  00 DODGER in front of... Good ole Luhr Jensen...lots of their lures  ( power dives, poppers etc )not made anymore and whoever owns Rapala bought em out. Rock 'n Roll, Hood River and Buzz ! Bit seduced by Yakima Hot Lips...or just try a F7 flat fish behind a troll  on 2nd rod? Some of Luhr Jensen's best lures and dodgers were  in  chartreuse, guess they ran out of that paint.

( 00 is 5 1/8" ? Dodgers whip side to side, Flashers do full 360 loops...flies and peanuts behind flashers..then plastic flashers not as speed sensitive...wish I lived closer to Lake O to be able try all the posabilities out more. 

Oh yeah, got thinking of how to change the colour of some non productive muskie bucktails and gar flies?
KOOL AID ( non sweetened ) seems to be a reasonable solution for dye..one crazy hard to find flavour turns things chartreuse, so will be looking for that too.

What you guys prepping for ?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:26:43 am by EagleEyesFlash »
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Offline Spyman48

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 09:43:17 pm »
I'd run that second spoon from the left
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Offline Ravyak

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 09:59:46 pm »
What size ball is that?

I use one of the scotty laketrollers with a 4 lb ball. Works decent but you get lots of blow back if you try to troll fast. I find 2-3 kph is about as fast as I want to do trolling the downrigger anyways so I just stick to lures that work better at those slower speeds. If I decide to use certain spoons or plugs that work better at 4+ kph I can only do it over short distances and kind of have to guess what depth the lure is at due to blow back(usually around 0.8*line out I find). Key is to try all your lures just far enough down you can see them and then figure out what speeds they work best, then you will have an idea what you can fish the most effectively. With a proper transducer mount I might be able to go a bit faster but since I don't have a lowrance ready boat have to stick with the transducer arm which slows me down a bit too. One of the more streamlined pancake style balls would probably help a bit and maybe a guy could drag a 5-6 lber that way(although laketroller only rated to 5 lb) but the only one I have seen was too expensive.

I have also wondered about lead core and even the dipsy divers etc but never tried any of that stuff. When I go for lakers I am often in 90-100 fow and I don't think any of those other methods go that deep so stuck with the downrigger anyways.

I got a few things I am adding to my arsenal this year but nothing has arrived so no updates yet ;).

Offline Spyman48

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 10:08:03 pm »
I only use a 3 pound ball. Usually max depth 60ft. I can see my ball as a straight line on my graph, Not much kick back, maybe at deeper depths it would. I only go 2 to 2.5.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 10:14:04 pm by Spyman48 »
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Offline Ravyak

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 10:13:31 pm »
Got a few more musky lures for my birthday, a magnum Bull Dawg and a Super Shad Rap. Will this be the year I get a big one? 3 years and the chase continues.

I broke down and bought some more big pike lures too. Savage line thru pike, savage real eel, bulldawgStorm kickin minnows, bondy baits, live target perch, jake, jointed believer, super shad raps, big spoons, couple suspended lures, couple floating and jointed rapalas. Should be able to catch something lol.



As for solo measuring your musky. Probably have to do something like this and hope she doesn't flop away before the pic lol.


Offline Ravyak

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 10:19:50 pm »
I only use a 3 pound ball. Usually max depth 60ft. I can see my ball as a straight line on my graph, Not much kick back, maybe at deeper depths it would.

You can't go off of your fish finder for ball depth due to blow back. Fish finder uses sonar which only tells you the distance from transducer and doesn't tell you anything about depth or angle(assuming the ball is within the cone angle). For example lets say you let 80 feet of downrigger cable out. When sitting still fish finder will say ball is 80 feet below you, when moving it will also say 80 feet but if you look at line might be at a 30 degree angle from horizontal which means your ball is actually only down 70 feet. Fish finder still shows 80 feet because that is how far away the ball is though. Same science that explains why a fish shows up as an arch on fish finder(appears shallower as you get over top of the fish then deeper as it approaches the edge of cone).

While on the topic of downriggers something else you might want to do is swap the cable out for braided line. I changed mine to 100 lb tuff line and I get less drag and even more importantly less vibration and cable noise).

Offline Spyman48

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 10:30:42 pm »
I'm sure there's some blow back, but it's not bad for the depths I'm at. If it was too bad, I don't think it would show on graph when trolling. I like the hum of the wire ;D I probably will switch to braid when I need to change the wire. Only fish Lakers 3 or 4 trips a season.
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Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 08:20:14 am »
Its a 4 lb ball. Figure good, yes will get a bit of blow back. Don't have to troll as fast with a dodger and spoon,
say 2.0 mph as compared to a flasher and fly where ideal trolling speed is  more like 2.5 mph. Tough doing a steady 2.5 mph. Like the replacing the downrigger wire with braid idea. Kinda expensive to buy downrigger balls ( $60-$100 ), a Cannon swievel mount is a $100, 100lb braid... ?

I tried a Dipsey once, didn't really like it, lots of drag and had to fight with rudder. For inland lakers, really like deep diving cranks behind a couple colours of core.

Nice toothy critter lures Rav., Kicking minnow gets bit.

Pure Fishing bought Luhr Jensen in 2006 !, man time flies . Oh yeah Spin'n Glos behind a dodger is another Lake O laker tactic.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 10:18:22 am by EagleEyesFlash »
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Offline Ravyak

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 10:21:21 am »
100 lb braid should only be like $15-20 for 100 yards if you know a place that can spool bulk on for you. With 100 yards you then have tons of extra and can cut some off and retie every once in a while.

Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 08:16:43 am »
Got a 100 yards of 300 lb test shark leader material, may use that, na a bit thick. lol

The boat trollers that do well on Lake O salmon mainly use spreads of flashers to imitate a school
of feeding salmon. Way too much drag to do behind a kayak I would think. 
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Offline dwc67

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 09:11:24 am »
my 2 cents  :D
i use 20lb mason wire line for my rigger cable from when i changed lines on my wire line reel. 30 lb braid and 30 lb wire have the same dive curve
use 20 or 30 lb braid or wire for your rigger cable. with 20lb braid on my rigger rod and 20lb wire on the rigger with a 4 lb ball i am can troll down 120ft at 2/2.2 mph

if you use a rubber snubber between your rigger cable and ball you dont get any shock loads. and if you use a long release above the snubber you can leave your ball in the water and its easy to set lines.

sail 4lb torpeedo shape ball is around 20$

give your spoons a bit more bend at the bottom so they have a big wobble. one must have laker spoon northport wildthing in halloween


Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 09:59:59 am »
Thanks for showing Dave !  Can also hang a piece of chain off the ball if you want to
stir up bottom, an old laker trick used more for mid summer over flats and deep and not spring time, near
rocky shoals.
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Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 03:57:21 pm »
Found this interesting article on using dodgers and peanut flies for early season coho.
Too bad not many coho around here, but like reading charter captains set-ups.

http://www.lakemichiganangler.com/tips/trolling/rigging_peanut_flies_trolling_planner_boards.htm

Can get a Dodger down to 45 feet with just a 1 1/2 oz keel sinker, might leave the downrigger alone ?
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Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2017, 10:33:39 am »
Anyone know dodgers and flashers ? I'm kinda new to them.
With the old metal ones are dodgers generally flat and can be bent to make a flasher ?
My understanding is if used in front of a spoon you just want the side to side action of a dodger.
The spoon has it's own action and you don't want things to tangle.
If used in front of a fly, hoochie or meat rig ( baits with no action of their own )a flasher that does the full 360 rotation is used, and the newer plastic flashers that rotate the full 360 at slower speeds are good to use ( ie spin doctors ).

Often see  Gibbs and Luhr Jensen attractors marked as dodger / flasher so guessing they are dodgers if kept flat and can be made into a flasher by bending the ends. Always a bit leary of bending things ( even spoons ) cause from factory should work and it takes time and experiment to figure out.

Comments ?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 12:01:54 pm by EagleEyesFlash »
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Offline EagleEyesFlash

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Re: Bit of Spring Prep and rambling musings.
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2017, 01:28:57 pm »
May have answered my own question.

Here's a tech. paper from Luhr Jensen.

http://www.hotshotguide.com/dodgers_and_flashers.htm

( Peter the Abe'n Al is a rotating flasher )
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