Canadian Kayak Anglers

CKA Kayak Fishing Tournaments and Events => Kayak Fishing Event Announcements => Topic started by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 12:31:10 pm


Title: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 12:31:10 pm
So I noticed something while uploading a test photo that had me make a few inquiries, as well as look at the new KW rules.
Of particular interest is the end of rule #4
"Team members do NOT have to all be from the same state to be on the same team. However regional points will only be accepted in the region registered in."
Since we don't just enter our fish caught as in Freshwater North America, we actually enter them for the region they were caught in. EG.fish caught in Tennessee would be entered in the US region they were caught in and only count individually, but not towards your Canadian teams totals, or possible Canadian records.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Boknows on February 22, 2016, 12:36:26 pm
that ought to make things interesting...almost worth while to pick partners across the country now...leaves each category wide open for numbers
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 22, 2016, 12:41:21 pm
I noticed that also. However i believe the us teams will be the only teams available to do that. We are individual Canadian international and couldnt have a usa region member. Hence the Cross Canada flavour this year instead of one province area. Best example was The Norseman last year. 
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 12:51:11 pm
I've entered both one Canada and one for a US region that shows on my catches just not for our team totals.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 22, 2016, 12:54:47 pm
Can someone registered in Canada now log USA saltwater fish and it would
only count for individual points and not team points ?

Also if registered on a Canadian team and you log a North American freshwater
fish from the USA it now only counts for individual points and not team ?

Guess I should be asking them directly, but doesn't affect me anyhow.

Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 01:03:48 pm
I currently have points in both US southeast as well as Canada, but only the Canadian fish gives me points towards my team. And only Canadian fish counts towards International angler points. But both count towards top angler points.
If you look for me on both US angler standings and Canadian angler standings and then team international you will see what I am saying.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 01:06:18 pm
So far they have no individual worldwide stats so this as far as I can see would only count towards winning individual in another region, records and career totals.

Honestly I think this is just going to make a big mess for them, going to be too many people click on wrong region and have to fix entries etc. People are going to realize they don't count as team points and just enter them as their own region anyways too. They should have just left it simple imo.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 01:07:52 pm
Also how is this going to work if a team member enters say a northern pike under a us region. Does it come out of team upload limit for month?

Too many hassles imo.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 22, 2016, 01:13:47 pm
We be interesting to see how this works out.
I did a test saltwater and a test freshwater entry from a US region, and
system has me on the US individual standings, but no points for Team.

Agree with Ravyak.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 01:14:57 pm
So far they have no individual worldwide stats so this as far as I can see would only count towards winning individual in another region, records and career totals.

Honestly I think this is just going to make a big mess for them, going to be too many people click on wrong region and have to fix entries etc. People are going to realize they don't count as team points and just enter them as their own region anyways too. They should have just left it simple imo.

Individual USA has a overall individual category where both my US entry and Canadian entry count for my total.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 01:16:10 pm
We be interesting to see how this works out.
I did a test saltwater and a test freshwater entry from a US region, and
system has me on the US individual standings, but no points for Team.

Agree with Ravyak.

Which is how it should be.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 01:29:47 pm
Individual USA has a overall individual category where both my US entry and Canadian entry count for my total.

You should have 25 and show up in top angler section but you don't. Brent shows up as his total of US points there, CAN points are not included.

I sent them an email on the issues I had and potential issues I see. Will see what they end up doing and how it works. I just see it being a mess, people can't even upload right species etc lots of the time, the fewer choices the fewer things to go wrong.

Brent or others that have tried, does the region default to where you are or the one you last used? Yet another big reason this is going to screw up horribly because no matter which way it is set up someone won't notice or remember to change it when uploading 50 fish in a batch etc.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 01:38:41 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 22, 2016, 01:39:11 pm
The region default is the one you are registered in.

I think this is what they want, they know what they are doing.
A Canadian now can get a South-Central record red drum if visiting there.
The points will be for individual and for that region only.

It's good for most of us, but would not like it if I lived on
Border water ( ie Windsor ) and had to have my individual points split
depending on where it was caught.

Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 22, 2016, 01:55:40 pm
Brent i believe it is to make a Canadian fish a Canadian caught fish and not about the angler. This way a USA caught fish becomes a record caught Canadian fish. If that same guy (Canadian) say catches a record SW region fish it will become the record there and not Canada.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 22, 2016, 02:05:09 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally

Brent i believe it is to make a Canadian fish a Canadian caught fish and not about the angler. This way a USA caught fish becomes a record caught Canadian fish. If that same guy (Canadian) say catches a record SW region fish it will become the record there and not Canada.

Yeah, we all understand, just a bit tricky explaining it.
We haven't seen the bigger picture yet.
Like species out of an anglers home region can be used for Gold Points, don't see why not?
Also sure hope fish caught out of an angler's home region count for Total Career points and
also that they show up on his/her profile. Still waiting for the profile page updates too, like
tallies and PBs.  :)
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 02:20:17 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally

I still think its stupid and I hope Canadian members that are forced to fish US waters to catch decent fish upload them in the Canadian section. I want to beat the best at their best not win because of stupid technicalities...

Region should be based on where you live not where you fish. Why on earth should a guy from say Windsor be forced to enter on a US team just because that is where he mainly fishes(and would it even be possible)...

US guys points still add up towards top angler even if they fish in other US regions. CAN guys fishing in US get screwed for both team points, individual international and individual US points. If I were from Windsor would definitely be voicing my concern on this change and making it known the issues it creates.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 22, 2016, 02:32:57 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally

I still think its stupid and I hope Canadian members that are forced to fish US waters to catch decent fish upload them in the Canadian section. I want to beat the best at their best not win because of stupid technicalities...

Region should be based on where you live not where you fish. Why on earth should a guy from say Windsor be forced to enter on a US team just because that is where he mainly fishes(and would it even be possible)...

US guys points still add up towards top angler even if they fish in other US regions. CAN guys fishing in US get screwed for both team points, individual international and individual US points. If I were from Windsor would definitely be voicing my concern on this change and making it known the issues it creates.

yes, I agree!  Has not been a problem for the 4 years that I have been fishing KW. (1st year fished US team, no Canadian Region)  What is the big deal with leaving it how it was?  In Windsor we only have big water to fish, no inland lakes, need to travel almost 3 hours to find smaller lakes and rivers (that have fish). I and others from Windsor buy US licenses to fish.  We live on a border and it is easier for us to cross into US to fish.

I think the only reason it would change is if someone asked. ::)
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 02:34:14 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally

I still think its stupid and I hope Canadian members that are forced to fish US waters to catch decent fish upload them in the Canadian section. I want to beat the best at their best not win because of stupid technicalities...

Region should be based on where you live not where you fish. Why on earth should a guy from say Windsor be forced to enter on a US team just because that is where he mainly fishes(and would it even be possible)...

US guys points still add up towards top angler even if they fish in other US regions. CAN guys fishing in US get screwed for both team points, individual international and individual US points. If I were from Windsor would definitely be voicing my concern on this change and making it known the issues it creates.
Why should American caught fish count towards a team in Canadian region. They don't count if I'm registered in SW USA and try and enter freshwater fish from NE. Same exact thing.
Read the last part of the rule #4! It's easy to understand and from what I understand even Windsor guys not just AB asked for this change.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 02:38:14 pm
What I've been told is Canadian waters/bordering waters only count towards your team and international totals. More or less...no USA fish to be entered to win Canadian region...finally

I still think its stupid and I hope Canadian members that are forced to fish US waters to catch decent fish upload them in the Canadian section. I want to beat the best at their best not win because of stupid technicalities...

Region should be based on where you live not where you fish. Why on earth should a guy from say Windsor be forced to enter on a US team just because that is where he mainly fishes(and would it even be possible)...

US guys points still add up towards top angler even if they fish in other US regions. CAN guys fishing in US get screwed for both team points, individual international and individual US points. If I were from Windsor would definitely be voicing my concern on this change and making it known the issues it creates.
Why should American caught fish count towards a team in Canadian region. They don't count if I'm registered in SW USA and try and enter freshwater fish from NE. Same exact thing.
Read the last part of the rule #4! It's easy to understand and from what I understand even Ontario guys,BC and AB asked for this change and the new owners agree and werent aware this was happening
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 22, 2016, 03:00:23 pm
The only reason I participate in Kayak Wars is for the registry of logging my fish that I catch each year.  Now because of some insecure individuals, I no longer have a reason to participate in Kayak Wars.    I am sure there are others that may live near borders that might feel the way I do. 
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 03:38:23 pm
Why should American caught fish count towards a team in Canadian region. They don't count if I'm registered in SW USA and try and enter freshwater fish from NE. Same exact thing.
Read the last part of the rule #4! It's easy to understand and from what I understand even Ontario guys,BC and AB asked for this change and the new owners agree and werent aware this was happening

Wrong, it all depends on how the awards are done and we don't know how that is going to happen yet. If there are awards based on the US top angler category for individuals then NE fish would count for US anglers in SW USA. US fish wouldn't count for CAN members though, hence why Windsor guys are potentially getting screwed the most of all participants by this restructuring as it effects their individual standings as well as team standings.

The fact you think you have a disadvantage because these guys have to fish US waters is laughable. There is much better fishing in Canada and no reason to try and handcuff these guys based on their location. We would have probably had an AB team that could compete against the eastern guys if we would have just worked together but your goal have always been individual and that is why your team always fails, not because these guys fish US waters...

As I said earlier, I hope Windsor guys just enter their US fish as CAN fish(unless doing a trip to Florida or for maybe entering record fish). Lets keep the competition so that us Canadians can compete fairly against each other. Keep it up Curtis and you won't have any competition left anyways, but hey at least I guess you will win by default...
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 03:41:09 pm
"Lets keep the competition so that us Canadians can compete fairly against each other."

Exactly.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 22, 2016, 03:58:59 pm
With the hundreds of guys involved from southern states to northern states to canadian fisherman i find the witchhunt pretty much nonsense. I believe pointed this post out early on to let guys he saw this. I posted it also on kwar this morning after reading the rules over. But to start accusing people point blank or in there area is complete nonsense. Unless some one has a crystal ball or physic  ability to know the unknown. There are hundreds of people on the site with north/south ties like ourselves that could want this. As for me personally dont care. New owners will take all new ideas , suggestions and do as they see fit for this year. And all the best to them. Let the games begin and all the best to everyone.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 22, 2016, 04:00:04 pm
And still looking for a west coaster to finish up out cross canada team. BC guy
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: otownyaker on February 22, 2016, 05:00:24 pm
I think it will continue on the way it was that Canadians will post in canada.
If it was me I would allow cross border fishing in nabouring states only.
I think this is more to stop say a guy from New York going down to Texas and landing one of there monster 12lb larges and uploading it this region.

I can see the argument that if u mostly fish in the US then join a US team.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 22, 2016, 05:29:54 pm
To keep things simple would be to allow the region that Michigan fishes. 
I could live with that.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 05:31:51 pm
"AB team that could compete against the eastern guys if we would have just worked together but your goal have always been individual and that is why your team always fails, not because these guys fish US waters..."

Well... I didn't know failure constituted finishing in the top 2-3 Canadian teams every year, Id say we succeeded every year.
Not everybody needs to be on top to be successful. AND if my goals were individual or need to win based I would have joined a team that I could guarantee a win with...the option was there... :)
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Jayce on February 22, 2016, 08:08:03 pm
Come on guys, keep it Canadian pure and simple!

Apparently, I am also affected by the change, since I frequently tour the USA and fish in a variety of US waters. It can be said that it was unfair the old way for other Canadians too.

FISH ON!!
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 22, 2016, 08:31:33 pm
We all participate for different reasons. The first year I participated when there was no Canadian region, not one American came forward and complained that I got to fish Canadian and American water. 

Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 22, 2016, 08:41:11 pm
This is a response from Jason @KW less than a half hour ago when asking for more clarification on the changes to rule #4.

"When you upload a fish, you will be required to declare what region you caught the fish in. This will apply the points to you based on the region you *caught* the fish in (before it would apply it based on where you live)."
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 22, 2016, 10:54:03 pm
I got a reply stating there will be changes made to the rules and the systems. Thankfully they seem to have a good understanding and look to have a decent idea for a compromise.

Quote
As for your other questions, we are about to post a new set of rules tonight which should explain more in detail. In short, we believe if you catch a fish in kayak you and your team will get points for that fish. Teams will still be based out of a region (3 or more) but this year at least 70% of the teams catches must be from the region they hail. Also, when you submit a fish, you specify which region you caught it. Stay tuned.

So US fish will count towards individual and team points but can only make up 30% of submitted catches. Not sure entirely how they would control that but I think it is a fair solution if they can make it work.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 22, 2016, 11:15:55 pm
Works for me!
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 23, 2016, 12:16:53 am
Néw rules are up...
Appears that the 70/30 split is for participation/prizes.

Check out VII-2, that's how they can control the
70/30 split.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 23, 2016, 06:28:01 am
Plenty of other new rules, just read carefully. I believe from the hundred of commonly submitted questions. Amazing. Perhaps a new witch hunt this morning for the other changes made like no cap species individual or say closed mouth pics. Someone must have launched a suggestion on these. Who could it be. Lets see for me i don't care just like the last changes. No speculated witch hunt for me. Hopefully we can get last years finals from Oz up and get this finished on his end before the start of new year off on weekend. Get back to good karma again.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Jayce on February 23, 2016, 07:52:42 am
Well again, seems more than fair idea with the percentages to make sure that no one is catching most of their (indi. Points) fish outside region. No witch hunt necessary. Question: why does anyone care about who is communicating with who about whatever,  in someone's elses online tournament? What's with all the BS drama? I don't see the benefit in knowing such things...
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 23, 2016, 07:58:14 am
I'm just happy it's only Canadian fish entering the Canadian (region 10) team standings.

...fish face left??? OK, usually mine go right but OK...
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 23, 2016, 08:35:36 am
I'm just happy it's only Canadian fish entering the Canadian (region 10) team standings.

...fish face left??? OK, usually mine go right but OK...

Ravyak is correct there is a 70/30 points split meaning that at least 70% of your fish caught have to be in Canadian Region water.

Check out VII-2, that's how they can control the
70/30 split.


that is how they will control it.

So to sum that up, 30% of fish can come from whatever other region you are fishing.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 23, 2016, 09:03:27 am
The way I read it is yes, your team can enter fish from a US region,if more than 30% of your teams catch is from outside of region you are no longer an eligible Canadian team so no prizes. I still believe your Out of region catches will not count towards Canadian team totals.Nowhere does it say out of region catches DO OR DON'T count towards your Team.
So you could place well with just your Canadian fish in the Canadian region, but be ineligible because your teams catch rate is 40% out region.
That's how I read it.
Guess we will see
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 23, 2016, 09:21:04 am
The way I read it is yes, your team can enter fish from a US region,if more than 30% of your teams catch is from outside of region you are no longer an eligible Canadian team so no prizes. I still believe your Out of region catches will not count towards Canadian team totals.Nowhere does it say out of region catches DO OR DON'T count towards your Team.
So you could place well with just your Canadian fish in the Canadian region, but be ineligible because your teams catch rate is 40% out region.
That's how I read it.
Guess we will see

No problem, but I have a confirmation that clarifies  up to 30% out of region fish count towards your team and individual point totals.

Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 23, 2016, 11:41:13 am
The way I read it is yes, your team can enter fish from a US region,if more than 30% of your teams catch is from outside of region you are no longer an eligible Canadian team so no prizes. I still believe your Out of region catches will not count towards Canadian team totals.Nowhere does it say out of region catches DO OR DON'T count towards your Team.
So you could place well with just your Canadian fish in the Canadian region, but be ineligible because your teams catch rate is 40% out region.
That's how I read it.
Guess we will see

I posted my response from him stating they would still count. Website didn't seem to be set up that way but maybe they are still working on it.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 23, 2016, 12:14:32 pm
Biggest change listed so far but few seem to have noticed is that the cap limit each month now is for individuals not teams. I hope they change it back though if they want to have emphasis on team aspect. If it is mainly going to be individual aspect this makes more sense though.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 23, 2016, 12:23:13 pm
Great to see the new owners and people in a peacefull mode discussing options, changes without be attacked on there views. 
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 23, 2016, 12:28:03 pm
Great to see the new owners and people in a peacefull mode discussing options, changes without be attacked on there views.

Yeah they are just trying their best to make everyone happy. Looks like a pretty good group running it so far, hopefully they don't get to overloaded and sick of it though, I am guessing they are putting a lot of work into things so far.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 23, 2016, 01:23:27 pm
Couldnt agree more, and sure glad OZ excepted them as new owners. Could be alot different scenerio with a different owner that wouldnt take peoples views or difference of what they get outta KW.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Homebrew76 on February 23, 2016, 02:08:46 pm
Biggest change listed so far but few seem to have noticed is that the cap limit each month now is for individuals not teams. I hope they change it back though if they want to have emphasis on team aspect. If it is mainly going to be individual aspect this makes more sense though.

I noticed that this morning.   I like the change as it allows people who live next to each other to fish with each other without having to split their catches for KW submissions.   With the way it had been, KW essentially encouraged you to team up with people from different areas who fish different species in order to be halfway competitive.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 23, 2016, 02:25:57 pm
I noticed that this morning.   I like the change as it allows people who live next to each other to fish with each other without having to split their catches for KW submissions.   With the way it had been, KW essentially encouraged you to team up with people from different areas who fish different species in order to be halfway competitive.

I do and don't like it. It would have avoided the whole issue Curtis and I had but it does take away from the team aspect as now guys only have to fish for 1 or 2 species to be competitive. Winning teams will now be ones that live close to a couple good lakes instead of teams that get out and differentiate with different species/lakes. The one thing they could do is lower the new individual species limits significantly, that would help a bit to balance things out but a lot of guys wouldn't want that since so many guys only like fishing for one or two species.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 23, 2016, 05:43:50 pm
All good merits and angles on the fishing. You have to also have to take in consideration some guys only have few species at there disposal / or travel far distances to achieve that goal in there immediate area. Unless they have deep pockets and want to do that. Thats probabely why they opened that loophole.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: otownyaker on February 23, 2016, 06:19:26 pm
I truly am surprised that the 70\30 region is the biggest topic. I would have figured the rule about mouth must be closed. Point caps are now individual. And the drop in a few of the caps would have been the bigger topic.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 23, 2016, 06:32:16 pm
Oh I'm not looking forward to forcing the mouth shut on Pike that's forsure...
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: otownyaker on February 23, 2016, 06:51:54 pm
Oh I'm not looking forward to forcing the mouth shut on Pike that's forsure...
Reading the KW fourm I believe they will drop the mouth Th closed in lue of just making it clear shot of the mouth touching the bump board. No fingers or grippers blocking the view.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 23, 2016, 07:02:47 pm
That would help forsure.
Anybody know why a fish needs to face left when entered on KW?? This is easily fixed by taking a good pic, however works best for a guy and rotating the pic so when it's uploaded it faces left....
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: otownyaker on February 23, 2016, 07:55:13 pm
I think it's to stop ppl from just flipping tge fish to the other side in an attempt to take 2 pics of the same fish with out the risk of ppl noticing distinctive markings
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 23, 2016, 08:40:20 pm
I think it's to stop ppl from just flipping tge fish to the other side in an attempt to take 2 pics of the same fish with out the risk of ppl noticing distinctive markings


While involved in a rules session for a series in Michigan that same question came up and you are exactly correct with your answer.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 23, 2016, 10:23:01 pm
They changed the closed mouth rule to state lip just has to be touching, although yes this can make the odd measurement a bit longer I agree with it for handling reasons.

Lots of guys are wanting the team caps back instead of individual caps. I proposed an extra idea to have both but not sure how easily they could program it. Will see what happens, either way it will work but it just depends if they want more of a team or individual dynamic to this tournament.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 24, 2016, 07:02:08 am
Not much backlash on the change to the caps and lowering them will hurt the lonely species guys, hence the probable change up. Hence,  mainly the reason to go cross country with multi species for you personally and to contribute to the team event. And not fight amongst guys fishing for same species monthly or not. And will make it easier for guys now to achieve there goldman points no matter where there from with no cap limits individual. and no problem pissing off there buddies
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 24, 2016, 07:39:18 am
It looks like they want to change caps again because of whining people. 50 pike per team to 50 per angler to a possible 10 per month??Guess I should have donated $10 to the homeless drunk outside my jobsite instead....What a joke this is becoming. They made new rules people... Let's try them for a year
I hope you all send them emails asking to allow a guy to catch more than 10 fish of a species a month. Or 5 perch. Ridiculous.
Bet this came from a Canadian suggestion....
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 24, 2016, 07:57:01 am
A cap like that will be suicide for site. Too many areas have limited fish to fish. From East coast to west coast . Great lakes no problem but others not gonna happen
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 24, 2016, 08:19:01 am
A cap like that will be suicide for site. Too many areas have limited fish to fish. From East coast to west coast . Great lakes no problem but others not gonna happen

I'm sure that Flounder Guru guy would like the reduced caps if implemented.  :D

Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Homebrew76 on February 24, 2016, 08:52:15 am
I hope they don't reduce the caps on the few species I can actually catch with any reliability.   The vast majority of species we have here are either next to impossible to find (musky, brown trout...etc), or next to impossible to find in a size big enough to count (yellow perch, catfish...).
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 24, 2016, 09:06:33 am
Lol Brent . High species areas would become the winners. Its funny how they went to wide open right to caps . Individual limited species guys get on the site and exhibit your dislike of this because u are getting screwed.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 24, 2016, 09:15:07 am
The reason for converting to individual caps is because of rule III. 2.

The way the current rules are now are very general and I think would benefit the areas with less species to fish. 
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 24, 2016, 09:53:29 am
There have been lots of comments regarding the team cap vs individual cap and almost all of them are saying to go back to team cap and saying that reduced individual caps are not the way to go. They haven't settled on a decision yet but I am guessing they will go back to team caps unless they can make it work the system work to use both like I proposed.

If they do decide to stay with individual caps they should reduce them but not by a factor of 4 like they were asking about. More like a factor of 2 so most species would be around 20-25 per angler which I think is fair enough. 50 is too much cause then guys will only fish for the same species each month.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 24, 2016, 10:13:43 am
It will go back for common sense reasons. Everybody picked team  member according to majority of rules from the beginning. Few are beginners this year and will see all the new info produced by members that have been in for years. Everybody realized this after watching the winning team last year. And will probabely be the same this year. Lots of variety this year and very few guys  points getters in the bunch, on the same team
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 24, 2016, 10:16:12 am
Had the individual points been wide open like suggested teams with all great lakes members would have walked away with all the honours. No one could touch a team that has hundreds of fish to add. Glad to see them drop that. Sorry had to add but also all these teams wouldnt look like the ones that are listed now
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: PikeCreek on February 24, 2016, 10:24:23 am
I am going to look at this as if I am the owner of KW.   

What is the goal? 
For me it would be to have the most participants possible. 

How do you do that?
Design the event to appeal to the broadest demographic possible.

A lot of the comments and suggestions come from past KW participants that have been serious competitors and try to reach the top in individual and team standings in points or GM points.  In past years I have seen individuals quit once they see that they can't achieve any of these goals.  So again how do you design the event to keep these anglers interested throughout the year and not just the participants in the top 10-30 positions.

Answer!
Small competitions inside the year long one, that will cover a weekend, week, or month that may attract the guy that only has time to fish seriously for a short period.  Part of that is being able to fish for a single or couple of different species.
The average powerboat angler only targets one or two species in a year.  There are many kayak anglers that are multi species oriented but there are also many that only target a few species.

How many hobby sportsman (kayak anglers) can put the time in that some of you guys do to achieve the results you do?  I could, but I don't want to. For many younger kayak anglers they have families and other interests or responsibilities that may only get them on the water once or twice a week.  These are the majority of kayak anglers not the guys that fish 4-7 days a week.

So before you try and manipulate the event to suit your fishing style consider what it takes for kayak wars to be successful.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Red Rocket on February 24, 2016, 10:30:05 am
You're spot on, as usual, Rich.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 24, 2016, 11:06:20 am
The team limits were fine every other year, no need for change at all. Most of us have teams spanning several provinces.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 24, 2016, 11:48:54 am
Had the individual points been wide open like suggested teams with all great lakes members would have walked away with all the honours. No one could touch a team that has hundreds of fish to add. Glad to see them drop that. Sorry had to add but also all these teams wouldnt look like the ones that are listed now

I find it funny that now guys are saying a cross Canada team is the key to success. Our key to success last year was not being a cross Canada team. It was having 4 team members that worked hard all year from ice off to freeze up to put up fish every month. Locate our team anywhere in Canada and I am pretty sure we would have come out on top or darn close to it. Yes it would have been a little more difficult if we were all located in one town with limited fishing close by but most places have a variety of species if you are willing to fish for them and put more effort into targeting them or driving to them. My first year on kayakwars I thought we were screwed here in AB because only really have pike and walleye that are easy, I was wrong though and there are lots of other options they just take a bit more work or travel to get.

Simply put Kayakwars comes down to hours. I bet you I personally put more hours into kayak fishing this year then some other teams did combined. Pretty sure it would have been 25+ hours a week most weeks not even including the probably 500+ kms a week I was putting on. I started April 4th and ended November 14th... I know this is the same for many other successful anglers like Joe and Curtis.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Kayak Curtis on February 24, 2016, 12:01:22 pm
How is Alberta, Ontario and the maritimes not cross Canada??? You won because quite simply you guys hardly had to share any species. The individual limit would benefit some more than others, mostly teamsvwith 3-5 guys fishing for same species,such as my team,but I liked the way it was in previous years
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Homebrew76 on February 24, 2016, 03:33:21 pm
I had been happy with the team limit as it was as far as team points went, but I wished they would have allowed us as anglers to continue also have individual limits.    They could program it so that if a species has a limit of say 20, and three teammates submit 20 each, then as a team there is credit given for 20, but individually, each angler would also get their own credit for 20 for individual angler points, GM points,..etc.     
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 24, 2016, 03:49:45 pm
I had been happy with the team limit as it was as far as team points went, but I wished they would have allowed us as anglers to continue also have individual limits.    They could program it so that if a species has a limit of say 20, and three teammates submit 20 each, then as a team there is credit given for 20, but individually, each angler would also get their own credit for 20 for individual angler points, GM points,..etc.   

This is one of 3 ideas I proposed to them. Others were to have say individual limit of 20 and team limit of 50 and either have it so multiple anglers had to target same species to fill team limit or have it so say an individual could claim all 50 team fish but only 20 count towards his individual stats.

Its imo the only way to have both a competitive team and individual competition at the same time.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 24, 2016, 04:45:30 pm
How is Alberta, Ontario and the maritimes not cross Canada??? You won because quite simply you guys hardly had to share any species. The individual limit would benefit some more than others, mostly teamsvwith 3-5 guys fishing for same species,such as my team,but I liked the way it was in previous years

Where did I say we were not a cross Canada team? Of course we were... That isn't why we won though... It might be why we had 14-15k instead of 12k but it isn't why we won...

I guarantee our team would easily break 10k if all located here in AB. All an AB team has to do is max pike and walleye and get a chunk of trout or river species each month to get 10k, easily doable with a few good anglers. Heck I thought you and me were going to be able to do it the year we were together...

If we can get more anglers involved can start getting more local teams setup and maybe even get some new extra regions in Canada(eastern Canada, great lakes and western Canada is what seems to make sense) but that is going to take a lot more anglers/teams especially out here... Till then guys have to join what teams are available.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 25, 2016, 06:06:55 am
After reading Christopher Baggots detailed, easy explanation of the no cap individual and more clear agenda for future of both categories by kwars. Im totally in favour of the individual no caps and team cap program laid out. No possible inhouse fighting between the players and how they choose to play the game. Does Not in any way promote this. And low limits or percentages just makes a low quota and personal goldman for the low end player and no difference to the high quota guy. And waiting till end of month to finish unused quota is again conflicting with a guys personal goals again. Views people ,please no backlash.   
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 25, 2016, 11:29:12 am
After reading Christopher Baggots detailed, easy explanation of the no cap individual and more clear agenda for future of both categories by kwars. Im totally in favour of the individual no caps and team cap program laid out. No possible inhouse fighting between the players and how they choose to play the game. Does Not in any way promote this. And low limits or percentages just makes a low quota and personal goldman for the low end player and no difference to the high quota guy. And waiting till end of month to finish unused quota is again conflicting with a guys personal goals again. Views people ,please no backlash.   

I read his reply and his view like yours is one biased by individual standings.

For those that don't know his example was with team caps a highly skilled team can go out and max out 3 species but individually none of them do well while another team may only have 1 dedicated angler that maxes out the same 3 species doing as well as a team but being far ahead in individual standings.

The fact is if a team has a bunch of excellent anglers there will be other species they can target and a group of skilled dedicated anglers will always beat out a single individual when it comes to team standings(barring an amazing effort if that individual lives in prime fishing territory and fishes every day etc).

Having either individual or team caps always has a downside. Team caps then individuals may suffer, individual caps teams may suffer. There are points to back up each of these claims and have been mentioned here and on FB.

That is why myself and some others realize they need both an individual and team cap in order to make it work for both groups. Especially now that they have allowed individuals to enter without teams(can't simply go back to team caps like it used to be unless they will allow teams to be formed by single individuals).

I don't know what they are going to end up doing but they need to decide quick and let people know considering the competition starts Saturday.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: shooter on February 25, 2016, 12:50:23 pm
Tons of views and angles on all of this. I believe them taking the input was fantastic but remember most guy got there teams up and running well before the rules were even set in stone. Not to mention what is actually up for grabs in the first place. Your right one more day to sort through with final rules and last minute details. Will be lot to sort through.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 25, 2016, 08:22:24 pm
They announced the cap will go back to being a team cap for 2016. They are going to re-evaluate how to implement individual caps based on some of our comments(so sounds like they are going to work towards having both individual and team caps). They didn't say if they are going to try and implement that this season or will leave that till next season though.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: EagleEyesFlash on February 27, 2016, 06:55:22 pm
Wow , all of this for a piece of paper if you are lucky.

http://canadiankayakanglers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4422.0 (http://canadiankayakanglers.com/forum/index.php?topic=4422.0)

And maybe a koozie, and other token prizes. All praise Oz !

It's meant to be fun guys. Yes know how a team is made up can affect individual points,
if set up well you wont have too many fish you can not count. I've only had a few snot rockets
that I could not post. Goldman points, especially slams can have you doing things you
would not normally be doing, like it's sunset have a pike and a largie, got to get that 8" sunnie or 12"
crappie, but damn the largies are ever active, maybe there's another one over 16" over there, oh,
 will stick to small jig, yeah, another 7 1/2" bluegill!
Silly Silly game ! !

I'm just gonna type a bunch of random thoughts, and make sense of them how you like.

90 % of fish are in 10% of the water and 10% of the anglers catch 90% of the catch.

4 of the 5 Canadian KW career point leaders have about 50% of their points and inches from pike.

Way too many points and inches given to course fish, like drum, gar, sheephead, white bass ...
but every angler should have a few of them on their portfolio imo.

Yes we have an advantage with pike and smallies worth 15 pts up here, from my point of view
a 16" largie should be 15 points and a 15" smallie 10 points, a 20" pike 10 points and a 16" walleye
15 or even 20 points !

I really liked seeing  Dwc67 and Mtmouse entries last year, Quality over Quantity !

Trout Mafia rocked last year, awesome lake Michigan fish !

Homebrews sturgies rock too !

KC and Ravyak, way to show NA the wild wild west !

Was at another wake last weekend, and learnt again, a fish may give you a thrill, give you
a sense of accomplishment, but what is way more important is developing relations with
other people.

Fish on.  :)
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Ravyak on February 27, 2016, 07:31:29 pm
4 of the 5 Canadian KW career point leaders have about 50% of their points and inches from pike.

Way too many points and inches given to course fish, like drum, gar, sheephead, white bass ...
but every angler should have a few of them on their portfolio imo.

Yes we have an advantage with pike and smallies worth 15 pts up here, from my point of view
a 16" largie should be 15 points and a 15" smallie 10 points, a 20" pike 10 points and a 16" walleye
15 or even 20 points !

Pike are one of the main sportfish species in Canada so no surprise there really especially considering how easy they are to catch.

I agree that some species points and limits should be a little different then they are. The point system seems to be set up more towards the cooler fish then to have anything to do with how easy they are to catch, numbers of them etc(hence why salmon, musky, sturgeon, steelhead etc have higher points then trout, walleye etc).

One problem is trying to balance multi species over the entire continent. There needs to be region specific points for freshwater like there is saltwater. That wouldn't help Canada though until we get 2-3 more regions and 100+ more anglers taking part though...

With our current north america system I have to disagree about walleye. Walleye seem to be difficult for you but there are many places in Canada and northern US with easy walleye fishing so to me the 10 points and 16 in makes sense. For example there are multiple AB lakes where on a good day/weekend a guy could get the 50 fish limit. It actually amazes me that you guys don't have a good walleye spot out there, guess you guys just can't have everything lol.

To me your walleye is like say our perch. Darn near impossible to find a lake or spot worth targeting perch out of here and not worth enough points to travel for.
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Dave on February 28, 2016, 08:03:16 am
Random thought:
95% of my drum are over the minimum size and get 10 points
10% of my largies are over the minimum and get 10 points
!00 % of my drum are caught while targeting other fish
All of my trophy largies (24 inch) are dreams
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: Flyfisher on February 28, 2016, 10:53:54 pm
Random thought, I just want to go fishing!
Title: Re: KW changes to regional entries...
Post by: phattrick on February 29, 2016, 12:13:10 pm
Random thought:  Why am I taller than my brothers, but shorter than my sons.
cheers Rick